I think that the Kpoint in the hills is too small.
F. ex.............................K.....HS......difference
Italy (DSJ 3)..............120..146.....26m
Willingen (real hill)..130..145....15m
I "always" jump over 120 meter and often I jump over 130 meter.
My suggestion is:
In the game we can change the Kpoint of all the hills after our wishes and skills.
Kpoint
Forget it!!
You cant change the Kpoint to what you want...
K point is the Calculation point in the hill, if you jump 120 meter in k120 you get 60 Length points for it, and then you calculate if you jump 1 meter longer you get +1.8 points... and the same when you jump shorter but just with .
K point is the Calculation point in the hill, if you jump 120 meter in k120 you get 60 Length points for it, and then you calculate if you jump 1 meter longer you get +1.8 points... and the same when you jump shorter but just with .

 Posts: 3
 Joined: 16 Oct 2009, 14:54
 Location: Prague, Czech republic
 Contact:
Explained very simply....
The part of hill from takeoff to lowest point (outrun) is consisted of 3 parts.
1. First curve (from takeoff to point P)
2. Practically straight line (from point P to point K)  in reality it is curve with radius 300350 meters so for such small distance (usually 30 meters) I talk about line
3. Second curve (from point K to the lowest point of the hill (outrun)
Hill size is lenght between the takeoff and point L, which L is located on the second curve at the point where the tangent angle is 32,5°
Area between points P and L is called landing area. When you see this blue bording on hills it is always from point P (beginning of landing area to point K), red bording is from K to L (to Hill Size)
This should give you idea about how the HS and Kpoint is calculated. If you want to change these numbers, you must change construction of the hill.
It is hard to change K point because height and lenght of the hill between takeoff and Kpoint must be in certain ratio. But you can change HS if you make the second curve (coming from K point to the end) bigger (you increase the radius).
Here is a link to a project of the new hill in Whistler, you can find all the data there too.
http://www.skisprungschanzen.com/_profi ... ler140.pdf
If you have more questions about that topic, you can ask me
By the way, Jussi? How do you determine HS? Do you do it like that too? Are you willing to show us some layouts of the hills? I would love to know what are the curve radius in Slovenia and where is the P point.
Thanks
David
PS: I am very very bored at work, so I made a picture in MSpaiting for you
Remember that it is very basic drawing. I can provide you more if you are interested, but this one is enough for this topic.
The part of hill from takeoff to lowest point (outrun) is consisted of 3 parts.
1. First curve (from takeoff to point P)
2. Practically straight line (from point P to point K)  in reality it is curve with radius 300350 meters so for such small distance (usually 30 meters) I talk about line
3. Second curve (from point K to the lowest point of the hill (outrun)
Hill size is lenght between the takeoff and point L, which L is located on the second curve at the point where the tangent angle is 32,5°
Area between points P and L is called landing area. When you see this blue bording on hills it is always from point P (beginning of landing area to point K), red bording is from K to L (to Hill Size)
This should give you idea about how the HS and Kpoint is calculated. If you want to change these numbers, you must change construction of the hill.
It is hard to change K point because height and lenght of the hill between takeoff and Kpoint must be in certain ratio. But you can change HS if you make the second curve (coming from K point to the end) bigger (you increase the radius).
Here is a link to a project of the new hill in Whistler, you can find all the data there too.
http://www.skisprungschanzen.com/_profi ... ler140.pdf
If you have more questions about that topic, you can ask me
By the way, Jussi? How do you determine HS? Do you do it like that too? Are you willing to show us some layouts of the hills? I would love to know what are the curve radius in Slovenia and where is the P point.
Thanks
David
PS: I am very very bored at work, so I made a picture in MSpaiting for you
Remember that it is very basic drawing. I can provide you more if you are interested, but this one is enough for this topic.

 Posts: 52
 Joined: 08 Mar 2009, 06:56
 Location: Poland
It doesn't matter. DSJ3 has a lot of "bugs" that should be discussed. "Bugs" meaning jumping is not real, not real application bugs.
Kpoint can be at the 120 meters and HS can be even 150 meters. There can be any difference. And David Bohunek explained it very well plus the image which after looking at there should be no misunderstanding.
I don't know if there was something going on in Willingen with the hill, I don't think so. The Kpoint was set to 130 because of long jumps indeed. And I think this ruined competitions because now the difference between the Kpoint and HSpoint is only 15 meters and everyone who watches skijumping regularly knows that landing at 150 is not easy for jumpers.
What really bothers me about Kpoints is that they aren't round in DSJ3. Why K122 in Australia instead of K125? Why K188 in Finland instead of K185? This is rather rare in real life (Lahti K116 known the most, all the others have square numbers) ,If there were hills with the same Kpoints but different HSpoints (compare hills in Planica and in Tauplitz), such a diversity would be much more interesting in my opinion.
One more thing. Are those angles really adjusted somehow or it's made in some other way? I would love to see all those angles, heights, and lengths. I mean  total data about the hill. Just like it is written, say, on German wikipedia for any hill.
Kpoint can be at the 120 meters and HS can be even 150 meters. There can be any difference. And David Bohunek explained it very well plus the image which after looking at there should be no misunderstanding.
I don't know if there was something going on in Willingen with the hill, I don't think so. The Kpoint was set to 130 because of long jumps indeed. And I think this ruined competitions because now the difference between the Kpoint and HSpoint is only 15 meters and everyone who watches skijumping regularly knows that landing at 150 is not easy for jumpers.
What really bothers me about Kpoints is that they aren't round in DSJ3. Why K122 in Australia instead of K125? Why K188 in Finland instead of K185? This is rather rare in real life (Lahti K116 known the most, all the others have square numbers) ,If there were hills with the same Kpoints but different HSpoints (compare hills in Planica and in Tauplitz), such a diversity would be much more interesting in my opinion.
One more thing. Are those angles really adjusted somehow or it's made in some other way? I would love to see all those angles, heights, and lengths. I mean  total data about the hill. Just like it is written, say, on German wikipedia for any hill.
DSJ3 Personal best: 314.0m (Slovenia)
DSJ4 Personal best: 196.5m (Planica) (what a great jump that was!...)
DSJ4 Personal best: 196.5m (Planica) (what a great jump that was!...)